Author Topic: Pronunciation of "issue" (Read 1603 times)

Alharacas · « **on:** December 17, 2018, 12:25:00 am »

Do you say /íshoo/? Or /iss-you/?
This is what made me wonder:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKZsgCts3CQ&list=PL4DXj09icrC8Fwv14wpIvdUOvceoy7n-7&index=2
It's at 0:47 and 1:02.

Susan · « **Reply #1 on:** December 17, 2018, 12:45:57 am »

In IPA its ˈɪʃu I´d say that your /ishoo/ is the one.

I went to check it with this site, because for some words the British is different than the American.

IPA Phonetic Transcription of English Text - toPhonetics

How to pronounce text in English

tophonetics.com

On that site you choose whether you want the IPA for the way it´s pronounced in British English or American English, and you can also listen to the pronunciation of most words.

The Mimic Method uses songs to work on pronunciation. With one of my partners who now is a professional teacher, we used the Mimic Method with each other. With English, you can take the text of a song and use this site to get the IPA phonics, and then practice with the song this way instead of using the lyrics. I never found a site in Spanish that would work with large amounts of text like a whole song, but with one teacher I did a few songs and we sang together. The regular English lyrics can work against you in pronunciation, but working with the lyrics in IPA both helps to learn the IPA and helps you focus on the sounds instead of the meaning when working with pronunciation.

Susan · « **Reply #2 on:** December 17, 2018, 01:16:12 am »

In my first comment, I had not noticed your note of the places in the video where he said ¨issue.¨ He does pronounce it a bit differently than I do. On that site I referenced when I listened to the British example she also seemed to draw out the oooo sound on the end, without making it as clear that the stress is on the first syllable as I think most Americans would do. However, the site still indicated the British and American pronunciation should be the same in this one. I guess with the many dialects of British and American English it should not be too surprising that the official IPA might not always be followed.

NealC · « **Reply #3 on:** December 17, 2018, 01:35:07 am »

Ishoo

It gives you an idea of the state of "Great" Britain when they can't even properly pronounce a language they themselves invented.

Alharacas · « **Reply #4 on:** December 17, 2018, 01:53:32 am »

Thank you, Neal, and Susan for your very detailed answer. I might not have found it worth asking if a) it hadn't been a video about teaching pronunciation, of all things, and if b) the guy didn't otherwise speak such impeccable RP.
Now, if one or both of you had voted for /iss-you/, I'd have had the inner satisfaction of knowing he was a fake.

Coligno · « **Reply #5 on:** December 17, 2018, 02:45:51 pm »

I think I've heard [ɪsju] before, but I wouldn't say it's very common. It might just be in RP that it's pronounced like that, but the vast majority of people in Britain say [ɪʃu].

the lost minion · « **Reply #6 on:** December 17, 2018, 05:12:00 pm »

Yeah, I think Stewie from the Family Guy says "'ısju". He's a pretentious, intellectually overdeveloped cartoon toddler... Also, Sherlock Holmes. Apart from those two, I have never heard anyone pronounce it that way.

Still, this is what my Polish-English dictionary says: issue /'ı∫u, 'ısju/.

Alharacas · « **Reply #7 on:** December 17, 2018, 05:26:29 pm »

Thanks, Coligno and Marmolada. You're right, I should have checked more carefully - Oxford also offers both forms.

Nikola · « **Reply #8 on:** December 17, 2018, 10:16:28 pm »

I agree with Coligno. The headteacher in one of the schools I worked in used to say it that way. She was British, but desperately trying to sound posh and conceal her real accent. My colleague brought it to my attention, otherwise I wouldn't have known. Makes me wonder if this guy could be doing it for the same reason.

SHL · « **Reply #9 on:** December 18, 2018, 01:06:55 am »

For what it`s worth, in the US „issue“ is pronounced with a short „i“ sound, although I recall a guy from Ohio saying it once with a long i, so it sounded like „ie“-shoooo, which is not how I say it. So, not being familiar with the phonetic spellings, I just say short sounding i, followed by „shoe“. I suppose that´s close.

The Brits sound a bit different and I`m sure Coligno is correct in his comments about the ss sound not having as heavy a sch sound to it, I suppose?

Kseniia · « **Reply #10 on:** December 18, 2018, 03:22:17 am »

Not to lower the tone but is it the same kind of dichotomy as with [ˈsɛkʃʊəl] / [ˈsɛksjʊəl]? I know that Stephen Fry, for example (and I'm no specialist of course but I was told that he speaks in RP), says ['ɪsjuː] and [ˈsɛksjʊəl] when he's not in character. But I've noticed that he and some other actors change the way they pronounce these words in some cases. For example, in this comedy sketch —

— it's Fry (the principal) who says [ˈsɛkʃʊəl] and Laurie (the parent) who says [ˈsɛksjʊəl]. Same with "issue" but I can't find an example on Youtube right now. Ah, and with "assurance" (same video, 5:15). Maybe people see it as a social marker or something?

NealC · « **Reply #11 on:** December 18, 2018, 03:41:14 am »

The pronunciation can be a social marker, sort of a shorthand to build a character.

What is RP exactly?

Nice to see you posting Kseniia :-)

Alharacas · « **Reply #12 on:** December 18, 2018, 04:41:01 am »

@Neal
Quote from wikipedia:
"Received Pronunciation (RP) is an accent of Standard English in the United Kingdom and is defined in the Concise Oxford English Dictionary as "the standard accent of English as spoken in the south of England", although it can be heard from native speakers throughout England and Wales. Peter Trudgill estimated in 1974 that 3 per cent of people in Britain were RP speakers [...]."

"Formerly, colloquially called "the King's English" RP enjoys high social prestige in Britain, being thought of as the accent of those with power, money, and influence, though it may be perceived negatively by some as being associated with undeserved privilege."

Oh, thanks for making me look it up, Neal! Because then there's this, under "History":
"RP is often believed to be based on the accents of southern England, but it actually has most in common with the Early Modern English dialects of the East Midlands. This was the most populated and most prosperous area of England during the 14th and 15th centuries. By the end of the 15th century, "Standard English" was established in the City of London."
I'd always thought it was much more recent, kind of invented by the BBC.

Coligno · « **Reply #13 on:** December 18, 2018, 09:57:31 am »

Kseniia's right, of course, "issue" isn't an isolated example of this phenomenon, it's just one of a group of words which originally contained the combination /s/ + [ju] which has largely been simplified to [ʃu]. But the change isn't complete yet, which is why both versions can still be heard for some words, the older one persisting in RP (otherwise known as "a posh accent") which is in some ways more conservative. There are words in which the change seems to have happened longer ago, for example I couldn't imagine anyone saying [sjʊgə] for "sugar", and likewise other words have resisted the change and still have [sj], e.g. "assume". A similar thing can be seen (or heard) with [t] + [ju] and [d] + [ju].

Coligno · « **Reply #14 on:** December 18, 2018, 10:38:23 am »

Quote from: Nikola on December 17, 2018, 10:16:28 pm

She was British, but desperately trying to sound posh and conceal her real accent.

It happens quite a lot, and it's amusing when it goes wrong. In northern England (for anyone who doesn't know, northern English accents are often looked down upon by southerners) there's no distinction between /ʌ/ and /ʊ/, so "luck" and "look" are both pronounced /lʊk/ (like "look"), and sometimes northerners trying to sound posh will hypercorrect and replace every /ʊ/ with /ʌ/, and therefore pronounce "look" as "luck". There was a UK politician called John Prescott in the early 2000's who used to do this a lot. He was from Hull, which has quite a distinctive accent but very northern. As he worked his way up the ranks in government, his accent kept changing: he gradually lost his northern accent but his new accent was full of such hypercorrection and sounded a bit daft.

Coligno · « **Reply #15 on:** December 18, 2018, 10:40:52 am »

Quote from: SHL on December 18, 2018, 01:06:55 am

The Brits sound a bit different and I`m sure Coligno is correct in his comments about the ss sound not having as heavy a sch sound to it, I suppose?

It's not what I actually said, but thanks for agreeing with me anyway.

Coligno · « **Reply #16 on:** December 18, 2018, 10:59:31 am »

Quote from: Alharacas on December 18, 2018, 04:41:01 am

Oh, thanks for making me look it up, Neal! Because then there's this, under "History":
"RP is often believed to be based on the accents of southern England, but it actually has most in common with the Early Modern English dialects of the East Midlands. This was the most populated and most prosperous area of England during the 14th and 15th centuries. By the end of the 15th century, "Standard English" was established in the City of London."
I'd always thought it was much more recent, kind of invented by the BBC.

I think whoever wrote this might be getting a bit confused. What is being described is the modern standard English of England, not RP, which is just one accent of standard English English. RP is based on the upper class speech of the area just north of London (where Oxford and Cambridge also are).

NealC · « **Reply #17 on:** December 18, 2018, 01:47:46 pm »

I agree with Coligno above, my guess on RP was "Royal Pronunciation" as I had heard of a British posh accent, even though I could not exactly describe it.

SuKi · « **Reply #18 on:** February 04, 2019, 08:49:17 pm »

I say 'ishoo'. Posh folks say 'iss-you'. I wouldn't diss you for not saying iss-you.

Some background: My pronunciation is what you could call 'relaxed RP', which means that it's similar to the classic BBC-style English that you might hear when you click on the British English audio icon on dictionary site. Standard, but not posh.

Feel free to ask any RP-related questions that might be troubling you.

Oh, and hello everyone. My first post here.

Nikola · « **Reply #19 on:** February 04, 2019, 09:37:41 pm »

I don't know why "relaxed RP" makes me think of medical drama series.
"How's her RP?"
"Relaxed."
"Thank God. Good job, everyone."

Hi SuKi, you must be in your element. I'm sure there'll be lots of questions for you.

Sofia · « **Reply #20 on:** February 04, 2019, 09:46:59 pm »

Hello Su.Ki, glad to see you here. I am one of the Italki outcasts. I think I had the hardest banning, they even cancelled all the lessons I had booked in advance and refunded me.

Truman Overby · « **Reply #21 on:** February 04, 2019, 10:38:36 pm »

https://soundcloud.com/user-840639005/egp/s-KRJlA

Truman Overby · « **Reply #22 on:** February 04, 2019, 10:41:15 pm »

Welcome aboard, SuKi. Nice to see you. I'm sorry but you won't find any language partner requests here.

Moonlight · « **Reply #23 on:** February 04, 2019, 11:02:06 pm »

Just

Quote from: SuKi on February 04, 2019, 08:49:17 pm

I say 'ishoo'. Posh folks say 'iss-you'. I wouldn't diss you for not saying iss-you.

Some background: My pronunciation is what you could call 'relaxed RP', which means that it's similar to the classic BBC-style English that you might hear when you click on the British English audio icon on dictionary site. Standard, but not posh.

Feel free to ask any RP-related questions that might be troubling you.

Oh, and hello everyone. My first post here.

I pronounce it like /ishi -you/. Is my pronunciation acceptable? That's what my teachers taught me at school, so I never really felt the need to check its pronunciation.

Welcome! Good to see you here.

NealC · « **Reply #24 on:** February 05, 2019, 12:07:33 am »

Should be just two syllables, so if you are pronouncing that second i as its own syllable you are not doing it right.

SuKi · « **Reply #25 on:** February 05, 2019, 07:43:37 am »

Thank you for the welcome! Nice to see so many friendly faces here.

I take your point about 'relaxed RP', Nikola. Maybe there ought to be a better term! Perhaps I'll go for 'standard' - as opposed to 'upper'.

I had already worked out your alter ego, Sofia (and was very pleased to see you here), but as for that mongoose fellow.......not a clue

Moonlight, I'm fairly sure I know who you are/were, but I suspect that your teachers taught you the wrong pronunciation. "Ishi-you" isn't quite right. If I were you, I'd drop the 'i' and go for either 'iss-you' or 'ish-oo', whichever you find easier.

Kseniia · « **Reply #26 on:** February 05, 2019, 09:10:53 am »

Quote from: Gef the Talking Mongoose on February 04, 2019, 10:38:36 pm

https://soundcloud.com/user-840639005/egp/s-KRJlA

...wait a second, so "issue" and "problem" are synonyms?! О сколько нам открытий чудных...

Nikola · « **Reply #27 on:** February 05, 2019, 09:21:26 am »

@SuKi
Oh no, I like it, please use it. I get all sorts of strange associations

@Kseniia
They can be in some contexts

issue

1. a subject or problem that people are thinking and talking about: 2. mostâ€¦

dictionary.cambridge.org

NealC · « **Reply #28 on:** February 05, 2019, 01:16:14 pm »

Kseniia
Yes, which leads to the smart aleck response

"Got an issue? Grab a tissue"

Basically "I dont care about your problem"

Truman Overby · « **Reply #29 on:** February 05, 2019, 02:17:50 pm »

Quote from: Kseniia on February 05, 2019, 09:10:53 am

Quote from: Gef the Talking Mongoose on February 04, 2019, 10:38:36 pm
https://soundcloud.com/user-840639005/egp/s-KRJlA

...wait a second, so "issue" and "problem" are synonyms?! О сколько нам открытий чудных...

I'm not a fan of using issue to mean problem, but it's ubiquitous so I've reluctantly joined the crowd.

News:

ShoutBox

Author Topic: Pronunciation of "issue" (Read 1603 times)

the lost minion

Kseniia

Truman Overby

Truman Overby

Kseniia

Truman Overby