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Author Topic: Why is English spelling weird? Paul’s explanation  (Read 982 times)

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Why is English spelling weird? Paul’s explanation
« on: July 13, 2019, 10:49:36 am »
After I read on another website that pony and Bologna rhyme in American English, I first thought that the person who wrote that was a bit phony (I still believe it).
So I looked up on YouTube and found this video of Paul of LangFocus. I didn’t know all the history of English and that even Shakespeare was unsure about the spelling of his name. I find it interesting that the printers had such a power on the language
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Re: Why is English spelling weird? Paul’s explanation
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2019, 04:03:02 pm »
It is a damn shame, but pony and bologna do rhyme in American English, but only when you are talking about the lunch meat.  If you are talking about the city in Italy then you have the typical English massacre of that spelling.



Oscar Mayer tried to get the country to at least call it ba lo na.  But people pronounce it like the kid.  That ad was incredibly popular in the 70's.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 04:16:37 pm by NealC »
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Re: Why is English spelling weird? Paul’s explanation
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2019, 04:14:52 pm »
Your video seems spot on, a great explanation but I blame French most of all.  For a while French was the language of the Royal Court and the upper classes, for a longer while it was the mark of an educated man.

My father and one of his brothers did not go to school much, a lot of their schooling was exempted as they were helping my grandparents on the farm during the war.  My uncle could barely spell at all, my father read more so he was better at it.

When I went to school in the 70's it was drilled into us that spelling English correctly was the sign of an educated mind.  Kids who couldn't spell were supposedly doomed to digging ditches and pumping gas for the rest of their lives.  I believed that until as an adult I got a plumbing bill and a car repair bill from two of the "dumbest" kids in my high school.  I thought they were dumb because spelling education was very public, and you could see who did not do well at it.  And here they are as adults and still poor spellers (they had bad "penmanship" too!)- and they were doing fine!

The teachers lied to me!

English spelling should be cleaned up and fixed.  It is why I supported Esperanto.  Otherwise is elitist and a waste of education time.  Being able to spell English "properly" is a sign you were forced to memorize spelling lists every week as a child, and is not predictive of an active mind or adult success.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 04:56:40 pm by NealC »
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Re: Why is English spelling weird? Paul’s explanation
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2019, 04:43:51 pm »
I've never heard anyone call the lunch meat  ba lo na in my life.
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Re: Why is English spelling weird? Paul’s explanation
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2019, 04:55:08 pm »
Oscar Mayer tried - end of the commercial.
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Re: Why is English spelling weird? Paul’s explanation
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2019, 05:00:42 pm »
Neal, they told me that if I wasn’t able to pass the test of the French  “verbes irréguliers “  (French was the first foreign language I learned to write at school besides Latin) at the age of 12 that I will end up working in a factory. That scared me! I still hate French grammar.
Well your story reminds me of that. And my plumber is more expensive than my doctor. The plumber usually charges at least the double and can’t even fix things. My doctor on the contrary  compliments me on my excellent health and my Mediterranean diet, he is nice : 100% Italian.
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Re: Why is English spelling weird? Paul’s explanation
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2019, 05:34:08 pm »
Bologna the lunch meat was brought over from Italy.  It is basically a cheap, processed version of Mortadella, and was first called "Bologna Ham" because Mortadella comes from Bologna.

People in the US know enough Romance language to associate morta with the word dead (even if that is wrong) so "mortadella" as a lunch meat is a non-starter.  Calling it Bologna didnt work because Americans see that word and pronounce it bo LOG na.  Baloney doesnt work because people associate that word with phoney.

So we are stuck with this hybrid foolishess that doesnt really help anyone.  I am sure this happens in every kids' life: "Johnny go get the Baloney out of the refrigerator so we can have lunch".  "Mom I cant find Baloney, but we got this Bo log na stuff, is that good?"
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 05:45:33 pm by NealC »
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Re: Why is English spelling weird? Paul’s explanation
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2019, 06:30:42 pm »
I first heard of bologna when I was reading the book The Shipping News (you might have seen the movie) where Quoyle, the main character, moves to Newfoundland to reconnect with his roots. Most food the local diner offers comes from a can.

"Quoyle ordered the fried bologna dinner. It was the only thing on the menu he hadn't tried, but night after night he'd watched diners at neighboring tables wolfing and gnashing, guessed it was a house specialty. The plate came heaped with thick bologna circles, fried potatoes and gravy, canned turnip, and a wad of canned string beans, all heated in a microwave. The overwhelming sensations were of sizzling heat and salt content off the scale."

I googled it and thought "what a treat".
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Re: Why is English spelling weird? Paul’s explanation
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2019, 07:00:30 pm »
I wont touch baloney in general.  Fried baloney at a restaurant?  I am not sure that would go over well with Chef Ramsay.
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