Even Greener Pastures

I have no idea for the correct way to say in English that someone has parents or ancestors of different ethnic origins. For instance like former president Obama, father African, mother white American.

In French there is the word “métisse” which isn’t derogatory at all like the Spanish mestizo or the Italian meticcio.
How is it in English?

Additional question: can you say “Michelle Obama is black“?

Today a woman came in to the store and was discussing flowers with my son.  She put off a final decision, saying she wanted to get her husband involved in deciding.  My son told her "Fine, have him come and see me".  The woman snarled that she would have HER see my son.  So the womans husband is a woman, which is fine but how the hell are we supposed to keep up with the individual pronoun choices?  Sometimes it seems people are looking for a reason to get angry.

Hysterical. Seriously, now, this is the first I've ever heard of a woman being referred to as a husband. It occurs to me, though, that the husband may have been an ordinary male husband at first, but is now transitioning to a woman. Otherwise, he would have been a wife all along.

You can say 'mixed race', but you had better do it carefully.  Too many people here are looking for a reason to be aggrieved.

How can I use that expression? Can I say “prince Harry’s wife is of mixed race” or “they adopted a Brazilian child of mixed race”

Sofia, please note that the following is in no way intended to be a criticism of your question, okay?

It's just - has it occurred to anyone that we might be doing ourselves - well, our society - a disservice by wondering so much about correct terminology? Not that we shouldn't try not to offend people, of course! But shouldn't we start wondering more often whether some information we're about to give is actually pertinent to what we're discussing at a given moment?
What I mean is: you wouldn't say "my blond/obese friend Tom", would you? Not unless you were specifically discussing hair colour, dieting and/or prejudices. So, why keep saying "openly gay politician So-and-so says cyclists should be made to wear helmet", for example? I noticed that this kept happening when Berlin had a mayor who happened to be gay. And remember how often we heard and read words along the lines of "Barack Obama, first African American president of the US bla-bla-bla"? As if we were all colour-blind.
Do you think not pointing it out all the time would have made these politicians' race/sexual orientation appear a pink elephant?

Neal, I agree the woman was just looking for a reason to get upset. But if you happen to have a sizeable gay community near you, then why doesn't your son simply switch to the plural pronoun? Even though "Have them call me" would make it sound as if the person in question had a harem.

That was actually part of his frustration Alharacas!  He was speaking in the local accent/vernacular, which basically amounts to "Have em call me", with the em sound being naturally heard as 'him', but could be heard as 'them'.  She was digging for a reason to get upset.

I believe that one of the basic principles of etiquette is that if someone makes a mistake (and I'm not even sure your son made one but let's say he did), you don't rub their nose in it. If someone kicks up a fuss over something that was said politely and with good intentions, they're the ones showing bad manners. You have to be quite messed up to deliberately make someone feel bad, especially someone you've met for the first time. I'd like to think that the majority of people would either leave it or correct him and move on, maybe make a lighthearted comment about it to make it less awkward.

Jerry, I see nothing liberal about suffocating dogmatism. 

Quote from: Irena on June 26, 2019, 11:55:11 am

Jerry, I see nothing liberal about suffocating dogmatism. 

You've chosen the wrong word, my friend. The word is 'ideologue.'

Dogma and ideology are near synonyms, aren't they?

Jerry, I suppose that's true of people currently (and incorrectly) called liberals in the United States. Oh, well. I wish words would mean what they're supposed to mean. 

Thanks Neal for your answer. My question came up when I was writing about my homonym. When I saw her pictures I was surprised by the fact that she was of mixed race corresponding to all the clichés of a Brazilian lady. As you probably know, I am a blue eyed Caucasian of mixed cultures.

I have no idea for the correct way to say in English that someone has parents or ancestors of different ethnic origins. For instance like former president Obama, father African, mother white American.

In French there is the word “métisse” which isn’t derogatory at all like the Spanish mestizo or the Italian meticcio.
How is it in English?

Additional question: can you say “Michelle Obama is black“?

I think that is a great question, Sofia.

I personally don’t use the word “race” in reference to human beings. German does a great job (I’m fond of German by the way) of using “Rasse” with respect to animals, like “die Hunderasse”, the dog breed. And that makes sense, because you can have pure breeds, beautiful dogs like the Weimaraner or you can have some little mutts the size of a cat that can only squeak at intruders in your house. Big difference (see that photo of one I posted today- who would have THAT kind of dog?)

I use the word “ethnicity” if I need to in referring to people. I would say, someone is of “mixed ethnicity, white and black” for example. It really shouldn’t be relevant or necessary, I agree. But if you really need to identify someone in some way, you could just say it that way. That’s what I do.

I think “ethnicity” is really the only substitute term for the archaic word “race” that is acceptable. And, it conveys the meaning you are trying to get across. People across the globe have small genetic differences, based on their biology and from where in the world their immediate ancestors originated from, and it is a highly complex subject, but not one that is terribly important.

I heard the late Christopher Hitchens say once, with reference to the concept of “race”, a word he also refused to use with regard to human beings, “Human beings are genetically so close, that if we were dogs, we’d all be the same breed.” I thought that was a great analogy. Even dogs are a species. Right? But, look at the differences. Now, look at a single breed and see the similarities. There can be differences, but they are small. Like Labradors. There are black labs, yellow labs and chocolate labs, a mix of the black and yellow labs. But, they are all still labs.

When Obama was in office I just referred to him as Obama or the President. People would say he was the first “African-American” or “black” President, yet his mother was white-of European ethnicity. So what did that make him? I never paid too much attention.

I agree that if you are making a statement like so-and-so was Berlin’s first openly gay major, that’s fine. But, after that, you should just drop the “gay” designation. Because, who really cares? So, I agree with Alharacas about that. When gay people had something to fight for, say back in the 70s and 80s, or a bit longer, the “openly gay” designation made sense, Pride Parades made sense. They were political rallies. Now,  the parades and celebrations are just an anachronism serving no purpose but to sell Vodka, or beer, see a palm reader, or for someone to have an excuse to have a party (and since when did anyone need an excuse to have a party?) This weekend San Francisco is having its 49th annual Gay Pride Parade, but the overcrowding is unbelievable. 800,000 people descending on a city with a population of 800,000? What a mess.

The polite phrase for blacks in the US was “colored” from around the turn of the 20th Century till about the mid-60s. Then that had to go away, and people opted for the word “African-American”, which was really stupid since most of these people had never even been to Africa and knew nothing about it. It would have been like referring to white Americans as “Euro-Americans”- which would have been considered a little absurd. Then, in the 70s the word changed just to “black”, which sort of put black people on an even-footing with whites. Made sense. Now, since probably 2005 -2010 we are back to the politically correct term of “African-Americans” all over again. It’s nuts. Black is still okay to say, but it's seen as slightly archaic. It’s the only term I use. I’m not interested in flowing with the politically correct semantics tide of the times. Nur tote Fische schwimmen mit dem Strom, as I put in my little box.